Seriously though, do you even fully read my comment before replying? You keep saying I need to accept bad outcomes and I keep saying that I already accept them. I want bad creature cards in the pool, but not a creature that is worse than no creature at all.
And it isn't what I signed up for actually, I signed up to transform my minion into one for a higher mana cost, a dormant the darkness isn't a minion at all, it is a silenced nether portal.
You also keep comparing a 4 mana 7/7 to a 4 mana 0/0 that gives you a completely negative effect for the rest of the game. A actual comparison would be if there was a card that was a 4 mana 7/7 that your opponent can not target or destroy, which would break the game if existed.
I did read it, and again, Darkness is just a bad outcome, a very bad one. Darkness is a bad creature card from the pool. It is dormant, and will remain the entire game, but it is still a creature, you just cannot interact with it. Darkness is a minion of 1 higher mana than any 3 mana minion, so that is what you got and paid for.
I'm comparing a good outcome to a bad one, a really good outcome with a really bad outcome. Evolve has a big spectrum of outcomes, from extremely good to extremely bad, which is perfectly fine. Again, if you are willing to accept the gamble to get an extremely good outcome, then you have to accept that sometimes you will also get an extremely bad outcome. That is all the Darkness is, an extremely bad outcome. It will happen rarely because the odds are low, but it will happen, and that is perfectly fine.
Don't argue facts with me because you are not going anywhere. You Evolved a 3 mana minion into a 4 mana minion. Darkness is a really bad one to get, but it is still a minion, in dormant state.
What you mean like 6 mana and 7 mana 1/1 and 8 mana 3/4? There are high rolls and low rolls, I accept that. Getting baron geddon and loads of 2 life minions sucks, but that is what I signed up for, not a useless creature that takes up a space and is uninteractable.
Actually, you signed up for any collectible minion of the cost you are evolving into. That doesn't mean minions you can interact with, minions you can further evolve. Darkness is a 4 Mana minion, so whenever you Evolve minions into that cost, you always risk summoning him and losing a creature space, with the same odds as you have of getting a 7/7. It's a gamble, a gamble you are willing to take because you are running that card. If you don't want to gamble, don't use the card.
Blizzard shouldn't do anything about the Darkness being in the pool because it actively buffs the card for no reason. They might aswell remove all the minions that have negative effects or are understated from the Evolve pool, to make sure the player always gets something good... Which is just stupid. If you want to play with randomness, you are subject to good and bad outcomes, not simply good ones.
The mechanic shouldn't even exist in the first place, if you want to keep it, at least make it have good and bad outcomes.
I'm sorry to enter the discussion right in the middle, but that's not fair at all.
I'm not a shaman main, but even the Shaman DK uses the evolve concept, so that's became a big part of the class mechanics at the moment. As it is, many of the few functional shaman decks make use of evolution and Blizzard even made a new evolve card "Unstable Evolution" to keep the archetype after rotation. That much said, it is indeed unfair to those who still want to play shaman to keep getting an outcome that just steals them a board position and can destroy a whole turn and, because of this, maybe a whole game. In my humble opinion, Darkness should be taken off the shaman evolution pool or, as an alternative, should be evolvable to a 5-cost minion. That's just my two cents in the matter. Thanks.
I'm sorry to enter the discussion right in the middle, but that's not fair at all.
I'm not a shaman main, but even the Shaman DK uses the evolve concept, so that's became a big part of the class mechanics at the moment. As it is, many of the few functional shaman decks make use of evolution and Blizzard even made a new evolve card "Unstable Evolution" to keep the archetype after rotation. That much said, it is indeed unfair to those who still want to play shaman to keep getting an outcome that just steals them a board position and can destroy a whole turn and, because of this, maybe a whole game. In my humble opinion, Darkness should be taken off the shaman evolution pool or, as an alternative, should be evolvable to a 5-cost minion. That's just my two cents in the matter. Thanks.
It is perfectly fair. You decided you wanted to play a card which revolves around randomness. As such, that means you can get good or bad outcomes, which is all that the Darkness is, a bad outcome, just like getting a Doomsayer or anything similar. It is a price you pay for using randomness, the chance to some games get completely destroyed by your own cards. No one is forcing you to play those cards, you can try and build different decks with other strategies that don't evolve this randomness,
It is important for the Evolve mechanic to have these totally terrible outcomes to help balance out the entire mechanic. If you remove bad outcomes, you start overpowering this mechanic because the pool of outcomes starts to become increasingly weighted towards good outcomes, making the mechanic essentially risk free and as such, more reliable to use over others, which is horrendous design, to have random mechanics be powerful enough that players have to resort to them over non random strategies, removes proper technical skill even further from the equation to decide games.
It's simple, if you want to gamble on getting good outcomes, accept you will lose some games because of bad ones.
While it makes sense to get Darkness out of Evolve, it's very unfair.
The huge difference of being able to interact with the random minion generated allows players with Evolve to never have a *dead* result. Even a Lynessa Sunsorrow isn't dead. It's a 1/1 that could deal that 1 last damage or take a chump attack from something with 3+ power (simply to avoid getting evolved). And on top of all that, it can be evolved into an 8 cost.
To evolve something into Darkness is simply punishing. It's actually purely mean. It's not balanced. You sacrifice your own minion to destroy one of your available minion slots and discard your Evolve with no benefit. Oh and you paid 1 mana for that. Not a single upside. Very interruptive to the game. If someone gets Flamewreathed Faceless, they still *discarded* (in this case, it's more of used) their Evolve, and they still sacrificed their minion. Sure sacrificing a 3 mana small thing and getting a 7/7 out of it is fantastic, but that 7/7 can be hard removed or even attacked by the opponent's minions. The 7/7 can be completely worthless without Taunt, and you still died. That 7/7 does not permanently (PERMANENTLY) prevent one of your 7 minion slots from being played for the rest of the game.
Which 4-costed minion out there is so impactful, SO STRONG, that it's *balance* is to have a chance at losing 4 resources (Minion slot, Evolve, and both the 1st and 2nd minion)? Which 4 costed card is a balance to summoning Darkness?
@DiamondDM13 I understand what you're trying to say and I respect your opinion, but I don't think it's just one card, it's a big part of the class right now. When it comes to the point that even the Shaman DK revolves around evolution, it is easy to accept that the evolve mechanics is how Blizzard sees Shaman right now.
I mean, they don't even need to take The Darkness out of the pool. They just could make it evolvable to a 5 drop.
@DiamondDM13 I understand what you're trying to say and I respect your opinion, but I don't think it's just one card, it's a big part of the class right now. When it comes to the point that even the Shaman DK revolves around evolution, it is easy to accept that the evolve mechanics is how Blizzard sees Shaman right now.
I mean, they don't even need to take The Darkness out of the pool. They just could make it evolvable to a 5 drop.
It's not about being a single card. Shaman has a few cards with the Evolve Mechanic, so? It also has a couple of cards for Elemental, for Jades, for Freeze. It has cards for a bunch of mechanics and such. The fact that Evolve is the one that sees more play is just to show how poorly they have been designing Shaman cards, that the way people have to choose to play this class is to rely on a random mechanic. This is terrible design.
Darkness being in the pool and locking a minions space is perfectly fine and fair because it is important to have these really bad outcomes to contrast with the really good outcomes. Do people really think Blizzard has been releasing all these high mana minions with 1/1 stats and the likes without thinking of the Evolve? It is an indirect way to remove some power from the entire Evolve mechanic because the mechanic is stupidly good. Adding bad outcomes has they have been doing is just a way to get it more into balance, by creating more risk to the mechanic.
I don't think people actually appreciate just how absurdly stupid the turn 6 Dopplegangster + Evolve combination actually is. It is not too problematic against extreme Aggro or extreme Control and even Combo, but against minimally slow Aggro up to the slow Midranges, it is just absurd. You are fighting for board the entire game until turn 6, both players using a bunch of resources, and the Shaman pulls three 6 Mana minions out of its ass for 6 Mana and 2 cards, completely turning the matchup on it's head and pulling ridiculously ahead.
We don't need to remove Darkness from the pool or change it, what we need it so add more cards that balance this mechanic while also releasing new proper mechanics for Shaman to use so that it doesn't need to resort to this random crappy mechanic. That is what is important, new powerful non random mechanics for Shaman to utilize and get away from Evolve.
@DiamondDM13 I understand what you're trying to say and I respect your opinion, but I don't think it's just one card, it's a big part of the class right now. When it comes to the point that even the Shaman DK revolves around evolution, it is easy to accept that the evolve mechanics is how Blizzard sees Shaman right now.
I mean, they don't even need to take The Darkness out of the pool. They just could make it evolvable to a 5 drop.
It's not about being a single card. Shaman has a few cards with the Evolve Mechanic, so? It also has a couple of cards for Elemental, for Jades, for Freeze. It has cards for a bunch of mechanics and such. The fact that Evolve is the one that sees more play is just to show how poorly they have been designing Shaman cards, that the way people have to choose to play this class is to rely on a random mechanic. This is terrible design.
Darkness being in the pool and locking a minions space is perfectly fine and fair because it is important to have these really bad outcomes to contrast with the really good outcomes. Do people really think Blizzard has been releasing all these high mana minions with 1/1 stats and the likes without thinking of the Evolve? It is an indirect way to remove some power from the entire Evolve mechanic because the mechanic is stupidly good. Adding bad outcomes has they have been doing is just a way to get it more into balance, by creating more risk to the mechanic.
I don't think people actually appreciate just how absurdly stupid the turn 6 Dopplegangster + Evolve combination actually is. It is not too problematic against extreme Aggro or extreme Control and even Combo, but against minimally slow Aggro up to the slow Midranges, it is just absurd. You are fighting for board the entire game until turn 6, both players using a bunch of resources, and the Shaman pulls three 6 Mana minions out of its ass for 6 Mana and 2 cards, completely turning the matchup on it's head and pulling ridiculously ahead.
We don't need to remove Darkness from the pool or change it, what we need it so add more cards that balance this mechanic while also releasing new proper mechanics for Shaman to use so that it doesn't need to resort to this random crappy mechanic. That is what is important, new powerful non random mechanics for Shaman to utilize and get away from Evolve.
While I do agree that ideally shaman should have more and better options so that evolve shouldn't be that heavily used, this doesn't seem to be blizzard's approach at the moment. Look at the new K&C shaman cards. Shaman got the worst class cards in the set. So, to penalize the only viable archetype in the class and make it even worse doesn't seem fair at all to me.
See.... I'm kind of alright for the darkness to be in the pool, simply because it HIGHLY disincentivises evolving low mana minions. The evolve shaman archetype in KotFT was an aggro deck first, and a midrange deck second, and forcing it to be a more midrange/control archetype is FINE since we have enough aggro archetyoes running around.
See.... I'm kind of alright for the darkness to be in the pool, simply because it HIGHLY disincentivises evolving low mana minions. The evolve shaman archetype in KotFT was an aggro deck first, and a midrange deck second, and forcing it to be a more midrange/control archetype is FINE since we have enough aggro archetyoes running around.
What you're saying makes sense, but there's always the possibility you're on turn 10 and your hand is a 1 drop + unstable evolution. In that case, if you get The Darkness, you've just lost the game.
Evolve is a meme mechanic, but it’s fun as hell. People want to be competitive with it, but the randomness keeps it out of the limelight currently. What would happen if you evolved it again? How lol would it be to summon an Ancient One?
See.... I'm kind of alright for the darkness to be in the pool, simply because it HIGHLY disincentivises evolving low mana minions. The evolve shaman archetype in KotFT was an aggro deck first, and a midrange deck second, and forcing it to be a more midrange/control archetype is FINE since we have enough aggro archetyoes running around.
What you're saying makes sense, but there's always the possibility you're on turn 10 and your hand is a 1 drop + unstable evolution. In that case, if you get The Darkness, you've just lost the game.
Maybe don't run 1 drops then?
There's a mildly successful evolve list I'm using that doesn't use minions lower than 4 cost, and instead relies on shamans low cost board clears, jade claws, and other cost reducing minions like nerubian prophet or corridor creeper to fight for early board control.
'Oh, but you could evolve that jade to -'
In the situation you are describing, unstable evolution would not win that game, even if it was my last 'out'. At best, it stabilizes the board for a TURN, maybe 2, then dies, and it was spent not even advancing the board state - instead just attempting to hold onto one.
What you're saying makes sense, but there's always the possibility you're on turn 10 and your hand is a 1 drop + unstable evolution. In that case, if you get The Darkness, you've just lost the game.
If your hand is a 1-Drop + Unstable Evolution, you are in a losing position and deserve to lose the game. The fact that you have a chance to get back in the game by something so stupid as continuously evolving a 1-Drop into a 9-Drop is just stupid design. Losing the game right there because you got a Darkness is not a big deal, you were meant to lose that game. The only irregularity would be if you managed to pull a completely undeserved win in that poor situation.
This game doesn't need random Miracles that help players win when they put themselves in bad positions. We need the game to punish badly designed decks and strategies and rewards the opposite. Having a deck based on randomly getting good outcomes is a bad strategy, it should be punished just as much as it gets rewarded, not solely rewarded, because your level of influence in this randomness is minimal.
The main point I am seeing is people complaining about the randomess of evolve, yeah you can get a gradually better board over time or 3 good 6 mana creatures for 6 mana, but just as often I get the bad outcome. I would say it is split evenly between good and bad, so i need to have luck to get what i need, but warlock can get a voidlord on turn 6 100% of the time if they have their 2 cards, i would trade 99% of my dopple evolve outcomes for a single voidlord.
There are so many decks that do truly unfair things without the chance of it back firing, priests 30 damage turns, rogues triple keleseth, druids jade package. The only way for shaman to compete is to get lucky, and the darkness just adds insult to injury.
I don't think people actually appreciate just how absurdly stupid the turn 6 Dopplegangster + Evolve combination actually is. It is not too problematic against extreme Aggro or extreme Control and even Combo, but against minimally slow Aggro up to the slow Midranges, it is just absurd. You are fighting for board the entire game until turn 6, both players using a bunch of resources, and the Shaman pulls three 6 Mana minions out of its ass for 6 Mana and 2 cards, completely turning the matchup on it's head and pulling ridiculously ahead.
But just as you've said, in majority of match ups dopple evolve isnt too problematic, but is absurd against slow aggro and slow midrange.......just like defile, dragonfire potion, dragon fury, pyro + equality, spreading plague, whirlwind + sleep with the fishes.
All of these from other classes are just as, if not more, powerful as a good dopple evolve, except dopple evolve can sometimes downgrade your dopple.
The main point I am seeing is people complaining about the randomess of evolve, yeah you can get a gradually better board over time or 3 good 6 mana creatures for 6 mana, but just as often I get the bad outcome. I would say it is split evenly between good and bad, so i need to have luck to get what i need, but warlock can get a voidlord on turn 6 100% of the time if they have their 2 cards, i would trade 99% of my dopple evolve outcomes for a single voidlord.
There are so many decks that do truly unfair things without the chance of it back firing, priests 30 damage turns, rogues triple keleseth, druids jade package. The only way for shaman to compete is to get lucky, and the darkness just adds insult to injury.
Getting three 6 Mana minions for 6 mana is better than 6 Mana Voidlord. Voidlord can easily be silenced and made useless, while you cannot simply just silence the three 6 Mana minions that were Evolved. Even worse, 6 Mana Voidlord is a Defensive play, meaning it is a reactionary strategy to catch up on board and still leaves the Warlock in position that is somewhat favoured at most. With DoppleGangster Evolve, it is an Offensive play that puts the Shaman tremendously ahead and most times simply too ahead for the opponent to catch up. A single body that can be silenced is not much compared to 3 different powerful bodies that come from Evolve. One gives you way more tempo than the other, and in a Tempo game like Hearthstone, one is just more impactful because of that. You would trade one of your Evolve outcomes for Voidlord most times, but would you trade all 3 minions for Voidlord? Knowing that is a tempo loss? Not really.
Shaman to compete needs to be lucky, but there is where the problem lies, not in the Darkness. It's in the fact that Blizzard has been doing a poor job with Shaman cards that leaves it in a state where it needs to resort to this crappy random mechanic. The problem Blizzard has to fix is creating better options for Shaman to use, not change the Darkness or Evolve.
But just as you've said, in majority of match ups dopple evolve isnt too problematic, but is absurd against slow aggro and slow midrange.......just like defile, dragonfire potion, dragon fury, pyro + equality, spreading plague, whirlwind + sleep with the fishes.
All of these from other classes are just as, if not more, powerful as a good dopple evolve, except dopple evolve can sometimes downgrade your dopple.
I never said Dopple Evolve is not problematic in most matchusps. I said it is not problematic against Extreme Aggro or Extreme Control. The issue is those are not exactly the decks being played for the most part. People play Tempo decks or Combo decks, which don't really recover well from a Dopple Evolve turn unless they are already ridiculously ahead.
And all the options you listed there are defensive ones, not offensive ones. There is a very important difference in this. Defensive options there simply remove the problems that exist, they don't put problems for the opponent to solve, they still leave you behind. Dopple Evolve is offensive and leaves you way ahead of the opponent, which leads to actual problems since you will win by being so largely ahead.
See.... I'm kind of alright for the darkness to be in the pool, simply because it HIGHLY disincentivises evolving low mana minions. The evolve shaman archetype in KotFT was an aggro deck first, and a midrange deck second, and forcing it to be a more midrange/control archetype is FINE since we have enough aggro archetyoes running around.
What you're saying makes sense, but there's always the possibility you're on turn 10 and your hand is a 1 drop + unstable evolution. In that case, if you get The Darkness, you've just lost the game.
Maybe don't run 1 drops then?
There's a mildly successful evolve list I'm using that doesn't use minions lower than 4 cost, and instead relies on shamans low cost board clears, jade claws, and other cost reducing minions like nerubian prophet or corridor creeper to fight for early board control.
'Oh, but you could evolve that jade to -'
In the situation you are describing, unstable evolution would not win that game, even if it was my last 'out'. At best, it stabilizes the board for a TURN, maybe 2, then dies, and it was spent not even advancing the board state - instead just attempting to hold onto one.
But what would you say about Mana Tide Totem then? It's an important card you wanna run in a control shaman and you have difficult removing, but you can't evolve it because you may get The Darkness. That doesn't seem fair at all.
Making Shaman unable to run low drops seems like an even worse aspect of The Darkness question, because even control decks need them.
In my opinion, The Darkness should just be targetable by evolve cards.
On an empty board, i might get a better outcome than a single voidlord, but empty boards just don't exist anymore unless your opponent wants them to exist. And yeah 3 6 mana minions can't be silenced, but they can definitely be destroyed easily by many of the options i said before, and they don't leave behind 3 1/3 taunts, so yeah i would take a voidlord and the temp loss, because i am most likely gonna lose tempo anyway. And yet again, dopple evolve doesnt always put you ahead, it just gives you a chance.
You said extreme aggro, extreme control AND combo don't find it problematic, which is pretty much all that gets played, who plays slow aggro orslow midrange anymore? And tempo rogue laughs at dopple evolve, unless they have done nothing turns 1-5.
All the option I gave were ways different classes have to equalise the board, by either creating an empty board, or creating a board that can atleast slow your oppenent down. Against an aggro opponent, your turn 6 dopple evolve needs to hit taunts, otherwise they laugh as they just kill you on the back swing, and against a control opponent you need some minions with charge or good deathrattle otherwise theyll just clear your board. Dopple evolve is the worst of all these option because a good percentage of time you wont get what you need.
What you're saying makes sense, but there's always the possibility you're on turn 10 and your hand is a 1 drop + unstable evolution. In that case, if you get The Darkness, you've just lost the game.
If your hand is a 1-Drop + Unstable Evolution, you are in a losing position and deserve to lose the game. The fact that you have a chance to get back in the game by something so stupid as continuously evolving a 1-Drop into a 9-Drop is just stupid design. Losing the game right there because you got a Darkness is not a big deal, you were meant to lose that game. The only irregularity would be if you managed to pull a completely undeserved win in that poor situation.
This game doesn't need random Miracles that help players win when they put themselves in bad positions. We need the game to punish badly designed decks and strategies and rewards the opposite. Having a deck based on randomly getting good outcomes is a bad strategy, it should be punished just as much as it gets rewarded, not solely rewarded, because your level of influence in this randomness is minimal.
Okay, maybe you're right about that particular situation because I've given a very poor example. But I just see evolve as a flexible card and the randomness is somewhat already predicted when you put that card in your deck. You know that if you evolve you're gonna get 1-drops, 2-drops, 3-drops, etc. Other classes also have turn swinging options that can win them the game. In the particular case of evolve, it's even worse than those cards because you don't know the quality of the drops you're pulling and then, getting bad drops is the rule and getting really good ones is the exception.
In my opinion, it is an already not so good mechanics that gets even worse with the possibility you could just pull The Darkness by evolving a Mana Tide Totem.
It's a mechanic that depends heavily on randomness, which has a great deal of ability to completely blow out the game in your favour. It is perfectly fair that it can also screw you when it rolls unfavourably. There should be even more of these outcomes to have less incentive to play them.
If you wanted the Darkness removed from the pool of cards, you would also need to remove the stupid highrolls it can get, like say, the 4 Mana 7/7.
What you mean like 6 mana and 7 mana 1/1 and 8 mana 3/4? There are high rolls and low rolls, I accept that. Getting baron geddon and loads of 2 life minions sucks, but that is what I signed up for, not a useless creature that takes up a space and is uninteractable.
That's like saying it's bullshit Sir Finley gave you the options of Heal, Armor up, and Reinforce as Aggro Shaman during MSG. That permanently gives you a crappier hero power for the rest of the game.
The low roll for evolving a 3 drop just got lower, that's all. Just like how people can mitigate the risk of evolving a doomsayer by rolling totems after casting evolve, you can mitigate the risks of evolving into a dead spot on your board by trading your 3 drops or dropping 3 drops after casting evolve if you feel like the small chance of getting a dead minion will screw up the game for you.
Just remove darkness and no more QQ
Evolve mechanisms is crap. Should change it to jades.
While it makes sense to get Darkness out of Evolve, it's very unfair.
The huge difference of being able to interact with the random minion generated allows players with Evolve to never have a *dead* result. Even a Lynessa Sunsorrow isn't dead. It's a 1/1 that could deal that 1 last damage or take a chump attack from something with 3+ power (simply to avoid getting evolved). And on top of all that, it can be evolved into an 8 cost.
To evolve something into Darkness is simply punishing. It's actually purely mean. It's not balanced. You sacrifice your own minion to destroy one of your available minion slots and discard your Evolve with no benefit. Oh and you paid 1 mana for that. Not a single upside. Very interruptive to the game. If someone gets Flamewreathed Faceless, they still *discarded* (in this case, it's more of used) their Evolve, and they still sacrificed their minion. Sure sacrificing a 3 mana small thing and getting a 7/7 out of it is fantastic, but that 7/7 can be hard removed or even attacked by the opponent's minions. The 7/7 can be completely worthless without Taunt, and you still died. That 7/7 does not permanently (PERMANENTLY) prevent one of your 7 minion slots from being played for the rest of the game.
Which 4-costed minion out there is so impactful, SO STRONG, that it's *balance* is to have a chance at losing 4 resources (Minion slot, Evolve, and both the 1st and 2nd minion)? Which 4 costed card is a balance to summoning Darkness?
@DiamondDM13 I understand what you're trying to say and I respect your opinion, but I don't think it's just one card, it's a big part of the class right now. When it comes to the point that even the Shaman DK revolves around evolution, it is easy to accept that the evolve mechanics is how Blizzard sees Shaman right now.
I mean, they don't even need to take The Darkness out of the pool. They just could make it evolvable to a 5 drop.
See.... I'm kind of alright for the darkness to be in the pool, simply because it HIGHLY disincentivises evolving low mana minions. The evolve shaman archetype in KotFT was an aggro deck first, and a midrange deck second, and forcing it to be a more midrange/control archetype is FINE since we have enough aggro archetyoes running around.
Evolve is a meme mechanic, but it’s fun as hell. People want to be competitive with it, but the randomness keeps it out of the limelight currently. What would happen if you evolved it again? How lol would it be to summon an Ancient One?
The main point I am seeing is people complaining about the randomess of evolve, yeah you can get a gradually better board over time or 3 good 6 mana creatures for 6 mana, but just as often I get the bad outcome. I would say it is split evenly between good and bad, so i need to have luck to get what i need, but warlock can get a voidlord on turn 6 100% of the time if they have their 2 cards, i would trade 99% of my dopple evolve outcomes for a single voidlord.
There are so many decks that do truly unfair things without the chance of it back firing, priests 30 damage turns, rogues triple keleseth, druids jade package. The only way for shaman to compete is to get lucky, and the darkness just adds insult to injury.
On an empty board, i might get a better outcome than a single voidlord, but empty boards just don't exist anymore unless your opponent wants them to exist. And yeah 3 6 mana minions can't be silenced, but they can definitely be destroyed easily by many of the options i said before, and they don't leave behind 3 1/3 taunts, so yeah i would take a voidlord and the temp loss, because i am most likely gonna lose tempo anyway. And yet again, dopple evolve doesnt always put you ahead, it just gives you a chance.
You said extreme aggro, extreme control AND combo don't find it problematic, which is pretty much all that gets played, who plays slow aggro orslow midrange anymore? And tempo rogue laughs at dopple evolve, unless they have done nothing turns 1-5.
All the option I gave were ways different classes have to equalise the board, by either creating an empty board, or creating a board that can atleast slow your oppenent down. Against an aggro opponent, your turn 6 dopple evolve needs to hit taunts, otherwise they laugh as they just kill you on the back swing, and against a control opponent you need some minions with charge or good deathrattle otherwise theyll just clear your board. Dopple evolve is the worst of all these option because a good percentage of time you wont get what you need.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman